[PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor

Thu Oct 4 21:59:04 EDT 2018

Alan,

Keep it up.  I wish I were doing it.

Hugh

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2018 2:37 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor

Hugh,

it seemed simple to begin with!

I still feel the concept of using an outrunner motor is good because

of the high torque that eliminates the need for a gearbox.

Heat is definitely the big enemy of these small motors & I found they

can maintain temperature in oil running them at close to 2hp.

That's in a bucket of oil! 

There are people using them oil compensated in underwater linear

actuators & they expound the virtues of being able to get a lot of power

from a small package using these motors.

I am nearly there!

Alan

On 5/10/2018, at 1:40 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Alan,

What comes to mind is the old biblical proverb.

Saul, Saul, why kickest thou against the pricks!

You’re a tiger for punishment.  But I guess learning always comes at a price.

At least it is interesting and we are having fun.

Cheers,  Hugh

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2018 12:53 PM
To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor

Alan,

If it was easy,,, well you know 

Hank

On Thursday, October 4, 2018, 5:44:22 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: 

Hank,

yes, this was what happened in my last pool test. I had a different motor &

ran it for 30hrs before it self destructed. I had noticed the oil moving up the line

when the thruster started. I didn't have a temperature sensor but must have

really cooked it. Multiple things went wrong. It had 3 hall sensors & they could

be moved about to adjust the motor timing by heating the glue their board was

glued on with. It came lose so the motor timing would be seriously out of whack

causing more heating. Then there was the bad press fit of the stainless shaft

I made for it......am learning.

Alan

On 5/10/2018, at 9:28 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Alan,

Ya, I thought you were just trying to stop oil from migrating up the hose, but the oil is being forced up by centrifugal forces from the armature. 

Hank

On Thursday, October 4, 2018, 1:50:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: 

Thanks Hank,

I like your method for making the bushing. It doesn't warrant a bearing

& as I said the ceramic bearings are expensive. 

I was a bit confused about the oil trap but kept quiet :)

Alan

On 5/10/2018, at 12:40 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Alan,

I just realized I misunderstood what your goal is, my idea of a oil trap will not help keep the oil in the motor.    The joints in my arm are plastic bushings made from PVC.  I use a hole saw to make a round plastic disk 1\2 in thick, then I machine a shoulder in the disk that fits tight into the arm member.  The disk has a centre hole drilled for the centre pin.  Seems to work real nice and is quick to make.

Hank

On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 7:13:05 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: 

Hank,

the oil tube is clear, so I'll monitor the oil level in the tube & see if

additional over pressure helps first. Also I have a temperature sensor

in the motor so if the motor runs cool enough I won't worry.

Did you put bearings in the joints of your manipulator, or not bother?

I am still running with the idea of a manipulator with an open gearbox

& underwater motor. I can get ceramic bearings but they are expensive.

Alan 

On 4/10/2018, at 12:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Alan, all you need is to interrupt the oil pathway, just take a larger container \pipe\ whatever and have the lower tube enter at the bottom of the vessel and have the exiting tube leave on the opposite side above it.  I use this method as a water  trap for my steam engine, under pressure.

Hank

On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 3:39:28 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: 

Hank,

I have the wires running out of the motor through the tube that the

oil comes in through. At a point in that line I have a T where the wires

are epoxied & run without the tubing to the through hull, and the tubing

continues on to the oil compensator. The compensator has a low oil

level switch, so there should always be oil in the line.

There is increasing ambient pressure going in to the housing as you 

dive, so not sure how you would relieve that on ascent with some sort

of oil trap! But I am not sure what idea you have.

I am stuck on an Island for 3 weeks looking after a dog & cat then my

other daughter is flying in & stealing my car, so won't be

making any rapid progress on this :(. 

Alan

On 4/10/2018, at 9:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Alan,

You can make a oil trap in the compensation tube, its real simple.

Hank

On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 12:32:59 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: 

Hank,

I am hoping I can dial up the over pressure to the point that it

keeps the oil down. (like blowing in to a straw forcing the liquid out)

The oil goes in through a clear tube so I can monitor the level.

I am not confident though; however oil compensation has been

around for a long time. 

Unfortunately I can't put a one way valve in the system as the 

pressure won't be able to escape on ascent.

Below is the motor in oil without the proppeller.

Alan

<image1.JPG>

On 4/10/2018, at 1:34 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Alan,

I have had similar situation, the oil will still come up the tube.  The over pressure makes no difference, unless there is a piston or diaphragm blocking the oil.

Hank

On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 2:53:29 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: 

Hank,

yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version.

I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & established

that it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite 

a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating 

back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube,

but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oil

in around the motor. 

Am learning a lot on each attempt.

Alan

On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Alan, your patience is amazing.  I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing.  

Hank

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