[PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam.

Fri Jun 23 20:11:29 EDT 2017

I'm pretty sure Olive oil goes rancid. They would smell you coming a mile
away.

-River Dolfi
rdolfi7 at gmail.com

On Jun 23, 2017 7:13 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: syntactic foam. (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 23:07:52 +0000 (UTC)
From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
        <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
        <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam.
Message-ID: <1555049330.929807.1498259272079 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Alan,I am still considering that idea but Sean said NO ;-( ? It is cheap
and I would have lots of exta buoyancy. ?This is good for Elementary 3,000
but not Elementary 12,000. ?I want to explore all ideas, ?and will end up
where I started with spheres in epoxy ;-)Hank

    On Friday, June 23, 2017 5:01 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Hank,what happened to your idea of using composite tanks pressurised with
air?As long as they were in test & you had multiple tanks, with a drop
weight thatcould compensate for one failing, that would be ok wouldn't
it?If you were filling to 3000psi, they wouldn't see external pressure till
6000ft.You could always test the idea at Nuytco.Alan

Sent from my iPad
On 24/06/2017, at 10:17 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

LOL,I checked on the?compressibility and it will compress .5 percent, per
1,000 psi ?same as hydraulic oil. ? I have weighed two types of Olive oil
today and the specific gravity is actually .86g\cc ?so it is to heavy. ?I
can't seem to find the light weight stuff .703g\cc ? if you buy in bulk it
is 5 dollars per kg ?so far.I am not even sure I can drive down the road
with that much gas, mind you it would be hidden behind panels on the sub.
?Then there is the expansion while it sits in the hot weather. ?If the tree
huggers heard about it they would crap in their pants and chase me down,
luckily my truck can out run a VW van lol.Hank

    On Friday, June 23, 2017 3:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Hank,is that extra virgin or cold pressed? I wonder if it compressesunder
pressure.Olive oil would be an expensive way to go. Whereas petrol
costsnothing if you re-use it.?Not sure why you fear gasoline; they let
women pump it in to their?cars at gas stations!Cheers Alan
Sent from my iPad
On 24/06/2017, at 4:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Alec,Thank you, I should have bought those instead of the 11 inch, grrrr.
?I could go with those floats, but I do hope to build the next generation
?Elementary sub. ?I want to figure out the whole foam thing and possibly
carry it over to the next sub. ?Alan has really?intrigued me with using
gasoline, I am terrified of that idea but it has caused me to stumble onto
another liquid. ?In searching I have discovered that Olive Oil is even
lighter than?gasoline, and obviously safer for me and the environment. ?I
have no idea yet if it is an option, I only stumbled onto it this morning.
? If anyone knows of a bad reason to use Olive Oil, please let me know.
?Olive Oil is .703 g\cc and I can put it into plastic containers that are
.93 g\cc?Hank

    On Friday, June 23, 2017 9:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Actually there are trawl floats rated to 1800m. That should have you
covered Hank! Check out #629 below.
http://trawlworks.com/floats.html

Best,

Alec
On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

These guys have 14" spherical buoys rated to 800 meters?? - $120.00??? with
a positive buoyancy of 39 #??? they are not syntactic.? The syntactics
start at 30" in dia ?
http://www.mooringsystems.com/ buoyancy.htm???Brian?
--- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote:

From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.
org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.
org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam.
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:52:56 +0000 (UTC)

Deep sea glass floats are rated for 10,000 psi
http://teledynebenthos.com/ product/flotation_instrument_
housings/flotation-glass- spheres

Greg

      From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.
org>
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.
org>
 Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:18 PM
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam.

Hank,if you are getting 3lb of floatation per gallon then you need
184gallons of gas. 184 x 3 = 552 ( near enough).Cheers Alan

Sent from my iPad
On 13/06/2017, at 9:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:

Alan,I need 550 lbs flotation ?and one imp gallon of water is 10 lbs and
gas is 7 lbs that gives me 3 lbs buoyancy per imp gallon that means I need
1650 gallons of gas.Hank

    On Monday, June 12, 2017 3:43 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:

 Hank,are you sure that's right!That would give 1900kg of floatation (
nearly 2 ton)That is based on gasoline being .71 of the weight of water. So
every litreof gas gives you about 290 grams of floatation.?Metric system is
much easier for calculating these things.Cheers Alan

Sent from my iPad
On 12/06/2017, at 11:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:

Alan,Those are nice, I can see other uses for them.? If I use gasoline, I
would need about ?1,750 imperial gallons for Elementary. ? ?I was mistaken
about the ?liquid paraffin, gasoline is better.

    On Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:

 Maybe something like this collapsable plastic fuel tank,?inside a
protective fibreglass housing, or a grate arrangement.??https://www.
bdoutdoors.com/ atl-fuel-bladder-extra/Alan
Sent from my iPad
On 12/06/2017, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:

Alan,Yes I have, it is very simple and effective.? There are of coarse
some?hazardous logistical problems not to mention?environmental concerns.?
I would opt for diesel fuel to reduce the fire hazard.? Any time you have
plastic and gas it is dangerous.? Last week I did a barge job replacing
dock piles.? When I walked up and down the plastic dock floats, every time
I touched the steel piles I got a spark.? Actually Liquid paraffin is even
better at .8g\ccHank

    On Sunday, June 11, 2017 5:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:

 Hank,have you looked at using gasoline?More volume required for the same
floatation as syntactic foam,but apart from the holding tanks it would cost
you nothing, as youcould use it after the dive. If you designed right you
could fill the tanksat your destination.Alan

Sent from my iPad
On 12/06/2017, at 6:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:

Greg,that sounds good, I would love to find a more cost effective foam.? I
still want to build one more sub that goes much deeper, but the foam cost
is not manageable.? I estimate I can build a ?Titanic capable sub ?for
100,000 and 80,000 of that is foam. ?;-(Hank

    On Sunday, June 11, 2017 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:

 Greg,There has to be good reason to make foam by other means than standard
practices. ? Cost would be the biggest reason, and using wax will probably
work, but is there a saving?? Using wax?means you have to use a deeper
rated sphere to offset the loss of reinforcement provided by the resin.? I
have no idea what the cost difference would be.? Maybe the cost is still
much better.? When I look at Cliff's report, the resin is not the expensive
part.? Perhaps the direction should be, to look for a replacement for the
spheres.? In Cliff's report it shows the resin triples the sphere's
performance.? That implies that the true strength comes from the resin.?
Maybe a sawdust resin or a styrofoam granule resin is worth looking at
also.? Maybe it is a simple as air entrained resin?Fun to think about
anyways.Hank

    On Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:22 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:

 Hi Scott,Thanks for the offer, but I need foam for 3,000 feet.Hank

    On Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:03 PM, Scott Waters via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:

 Hank,
Hola from Costa Rica!
Depends on if they are glass or carbon fiber spheres and what size they
are. They are all pretty durable. We are actually cutting up the foam on
Pisces and reattaching it to get the shapes we want.?
I do have a ton of syntactic foam that is cert to 400m that I'd sell you
for super cheap. Like all of it for $200
Thanks,Scott Waters

Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> Date: 6/10/17
12:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs. org> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] syntactic foam.
I have an idea, but not sure if it will work.? My idea is to fill a
neutrally buoyant container with macro and micro spheres.? After the
container is as full as possible, then fill with an environmentally
friendly oil.? This would be more buoyant than using a resin and less
complicated and cheaper.? My concern is, how well will the spheres stand up
against breaking from being in contact with the other spheres and the
container. ? Are these spheres delicate? ?Hank______________________________
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