[PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising

Sat Feb 4 08:55:51 EST 2017

Brain,

That is a pity . the process itself is not very expensive. 

My anodizer (http://ko-ar.nl/en/anodising/) charges some 50,- for a 24” domehatch ring.

Emile

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: zaterdag 4 februari 2017 8:13
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising

Alan,     

                The cost of anodizing alone I could probably make 3 or 4 duplicates !   Especially here in Kalifornia !   They tack on an additional 9% environmental extortion fee, plus 7.5% sales tax !   It's starting to get expensive !!

Brian

--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:

From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:25:02 +1300

Brian,

I would get it anodised to be on the safe side. You will have several o-rings

sealing on to it not to mention the big one that will seal it to the hull. You 

could have seawater entrapped in the o-ring grooves corroding it while it's

out of the water.

Alan 

Sent from my iPad

On 4/02/2017, at 3:45 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Sean,    Salt water,  but the aluminum (6061) that I have is completely isolated from any other metal, basically it is a 6" dia x 11/2" thick disk ( replaces my viewport) and I'm running aluminum penetrators thru the disk.  

Brian

--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:

From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2017 18:01:31 -0700

Brian - are you operating in salt or fresh water?  All of the vehicles I have worked on, for deployment in seawater, used 6061-T6 aluminum components, hard anodized black, and additionally protected with zinc anodes mounted to appropriately prepared (i.e. unanodized) surfaces.

Sean

On February 3, 2017 5:06:50 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Alan,  

            Now you've got me thinking that I might be able to get away with out anodizing my 6061 aluminum.  The data that I've been looking at shows good corrosion resistance for the 6061.  Hmm... I guess I could just try it out and see what happens !  Worst that could happen is I might have to replace the parts down the line.  

Brian

--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:

From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] anodising
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:07:54 +0000 (UTC)

I am looking at free machining aluminium rod as one of the options for my light housing.

It is sold as 2011 T3 to T6. Is this suitable for hard anodizing?

It is no good for welding.

Alan

  _____  

From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance

Brian,

While Emile has a good anodiser there are many lousy ones out there.  Generally anodising will add thickness.  Half goes into the metal and half goes on the outside.  Depending on the clearance or fit of your threads depends whether you have a problem  We anodise but have to allow for clearance..  The Anodisers I have available are very commercial and we have had issues affecting O’ring sealing so pick your anodiser carefully.  On a class 3 thread fit you cannot get complacent as 50 microns thickness is still 0.002” so a thread will have a much greater effect  While 50 microns is only 25 microns increase it means! 100 microns on clearance diameter if both male and female are anodised..  There are some new processes which claim will not add thickness such as diamondysing but that process is added ontop of normal anodising.  I would ask Emile what actual process his anodiser uses.  We would need to go to an aircraft certified anodiser.   We do our own hard anodising.  Pulse anodising will produce better results.  Hugh 

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of emile via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Saturday, 4 February 2017 7:26 AM
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance

Brian, 

A good Anodizer can keep it the same size . With 30-50 Micron  thickness there can be some Microns “growth” 

Not a issue for O-rings and threads.

My anodize offers a Teflon dip after anodizing to make it more water repellant.

Emile

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: vrijdag 3 februari 2017 18:05
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance

Cliff,                 Will I have to worry about threads or o ring tolerances after the process?   

Brian 

---  <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:

From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:45:26 -0600

Brian, I am not a corrosion expert but have found that hard anozizing (Mil-A-8625 type III) seems to work fine for my parts.  My experience is that PSUB stuff gets banged around a lot so addeded thinckness and hardness that comes from Mil-A-8625 type III seems to work out better.  Most of my marine experience has been in fresh water lakes so we really need to get someone with a lot of saltwater experience to chime in.  Also most psubbers don't leave their boats in the water all the time and rinse off the boat after use.  This also tends to mitigate corrosion.

Cliff

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Cliff,   Is the Mil-A-8625 type III class 2 black  anodizing sufficient for exposure to sea water?  Using 6061 aluminum. 

Brian

--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:

From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:30:18 -0600

Sounds like you are having fun coming up to speed on PLCs. Get your wife to take the video of your hand waving.  We would all appreciate the entailment value!  It a lot of fun to bench test components being operated by PLC and see them come to life based on your code.  As to compass heading, roll, pitch and yaw sensor, I use the Ocean-server http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html   OS5000-S Solid State tilt compensagted 3 axes digital compass,  This is a RS-232 serial device. You have to write som! e PLC ladder logic code to parse the ASCII string sent to the PLC to extract the data,  I packaged mine in a small 1-atm aluminum anadoized pod about the size of a tennis ball that I have mounted outside the steel pressure hull behind the pilot.  Even though the DoMore CPU you are using has several serial input ports that could be used for this sensor, I ended up getted a dedicated coprocessor module that plugs into one of the AutomationDirect PLC bases that enables me to write the parsing code in BASIC and enables me to dedicate the coprocessor to this sensor.  It took me a while to come up to speed on RS-232 comuncations but I now have this working petty much bullet proof.  The coprocedssor then sends the heading, pitch, roll and yaw values to the PLC cpu to be used any way you want them.  Currently, I am only using this data on my HMI.

Cliff

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:52 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Hi Cliff,

Its been slow going as I am finishing building my home. Should be finished in 45 days. But I have been making progress as I learn PLC coding and ladder logic in the evenings. Currently I am working thru the flight Joy Stick switch controls combined with a 4 position joystick base to control the (2) forward canard wings, (2) vertical thrusters  (2) horizontal thrusters, and (2) vectored rear thrusters to have a flight experience. I spend many hours in the evening when my wife is not looking waving my hands thru the air simulating flight and then coding the switches needed to make the mane! uver. I'm sure it would be entertaining to record a video.  I am curious, are you using any gyroscopic sensors for pitch and roll? I'm thinking I need to have some build into the coding so as to limit my human abilities as safety overrides. 

The next step is to get a bench setup with the joystick and canard wings to run tests on the coding and for flight training purposes. Just need to finish the house first. Mean while I'll be waving my hands in the air for a while.

Best Regards,
David Colombo
  <http://static.squarespace.com/static/533310a9e4b0fba62008a464/t/5339c1f2e4b041bac4e25d1b/1396294132055/?format=500w> 
804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com <http://www.seaquestor.com/> 

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

David, hope that you have made some progress on the design work for SeaQuester. When I first installed life support on the R300, I had sensors distributed all over the boat.  What I have move to is packaging all the Life Support related sensors in a single electrical box I call the AMOC module.  AMOC is an acronym for Air Management and Oxygen Control. This made it easier to maintain the system and made it easy to bench test. I feed HP O2 from an external tank to! this box.  It in turn breaks the pressure and emits the O2 to keep the mole percent balanced.  The PLC interfaces with the AMOC unit to monitor and control the air in the cabin. If you are interested, send me your email address to cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net and I will send you the DCI for the drawings associated with the AMOC  unit and the drawings.  The axial flow scrubber I use is the same one Alec used for Snoopy.  It has worked great. The PLC ladder logic code around the life support system is pretty straight forward.  What I like about the system is that it automatically compensates for different sized humans in the boat but yet retains a manual mode in the event both the main and auxiliary power are lost.  The assembly drawing for the AMOC unit details all the sensors as well as all the Swagelok fittings and circular disconnect.  This unit should work well with the AutomationDirect DoM! ore CPU you have.

Cliff

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:50 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Cliff, Thanks for answering the question I was just going to ask.  Did you build any special case to mount for replacement? I need to back and see the line of code you used so I can use it in my DoMore PLC

Best Regards,
David Colombo
  <http://static.squarespace.com/static/533310a9e4b0fba62008a464/t/5339c1f2e4b041bac4e25d1b/1396294132055/?format=500w> 
804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com <http://www.seaquestor.com/> 

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

I have had good performance from this company but with their K30 sensor.  $85 and does give 0-5v analog output signal.  It span is 0-10,000 ppm (0-2%).

Cliff

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:37 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

I did side-by-side tests on several low-cost ambient CO2 sensors when I was doing air quality instrumentation work, and I eventually settled on these units from COZIR. 
http://www.co2meter.com/products/cozir-0-2-co2-sensor

They're only about $70US, have bui! lt in self calibration, super reliable, and have very low current draw compared to other sensors. The big rub is that it isn't analog output, but serial.

You would have to interface it with a microcontroller (which is an easy enough job with a $20 Arduino) and have it set up to display to an LCD, trip an alarm at critical levels, possible demand control of the scrubber, other sensors, etc.

I have an identical system built for the health department currently running 70 (70!!!) of these sensors and others on battery power across the city in the elements. They are that good.

I recently found about half of a medical scrubber in a dumpster, so I've been thinking about life support lately.

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