[PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report...

Tue Aug 8 01:27:37 EDT 2017

Cliff,
thanks for those insights. Had a look on your project page & originally you
had a towing point low down. Then it seemed to disappear & be replaced by
a tow point on the centre of the nose; is that right? Would it have helped towing
from a lower point? In the "dry divers" video they talk of getting 10 knots
towing speed; would have thought your design could get more speed than that.
   I am looking at having a fibreglass false floor/ wall that I can channel air from the
scrubber or auxiliary fan through; forcing it in to contact with the cold hull.
Not sure how successful this will be at temperature control or humidity control,
but will give it a go.  Has the additional benefit of insulation in the cold.
I remember Steve & Alec being towed out with 9 bags of ice. I don't think they
would have cared what the sea state was, they definitely didn't want to stay inside
for the trip back.
Alan 

Sent from my iPad

> On 8/08/2017, at 1:47 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Alan, I think a small DC air conditioner would be of more use than fresh air.  Because of the hull shape, at a tow speed of 4-5 mph, a bow wave formed and pushed the bow down.  At this speed the water covered the dome and this was like throwing a towel over the viewport in keeping the sun off.  To be  honest with you, I was very disappointed with the maneuverability I had on the original R300 design at low speeds for the Psub convention in Islamorada four years ago.  The jet pump was strong and fast but not maneuverability at low speed.   When I switched to using thrusters last year, the  maneuverability dramatically  improved.  The issue we had when towing is that at 4-5 mph, the boat was pitching down about 10 degrees so the rear thrusters were practically out of the water so towed manuveraivlty was not good.  Untowed it was just fine.  My stern thrusters are not submerged very far so if I push them to hard on the surface, air is ingested into the nozzle. 
> 
> One of the things I am going to build is a towing bra out of foam and FRP that has more of a conventional hull shape to prevent the bow pitching downward during tows.  Should also make it for stable for egress after towing unmanned.
> 
> Regards  Cliff
> 
>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:51 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> Thanks Cliff.
>> I am wanting to glean as much as I can from this for my build!
>> When you've recovered; do you think some sort of snorkel system with fresh 
>> air flowing in would have helped? Did you cover the dome while towing? 
>> What sort of towing speed were you getting when you weren't submerged? 
>> How was manoeuvrability this time round? 
>> Cheers Alan
>>  
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On 8/08/2017, at 11:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad for hosting us last week. You guys  did a magnificent job. This was the best sub trip of my life! 
>>> 
>>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017 Psub Regatta.
>>> 
>>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and RH of 80%.  Average speed was about 4.5 MPH.  As long as we ran partially submerged to was hot but fine.  This was a test dive to see if we could get out deeper.  Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water.  The 7.8 miles from Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells.  Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler.  The tow back was rough.  With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours.  I did not loose my cookies but it was close.
>>> 
>>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing.  Towing subs sucks.  All survived but I used up all my on board water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water.  We were all pretty whipped.  All  in all, it was quite an adventure.
>>> 
>>> More latter.
>>> 
>>> Cliff
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day
>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August
>>>> 1-3).
>>>> 
>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day
>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate
>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands
>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time
>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving.
>>>> 
>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell,
>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr.
>>>> 
>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver
>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this
>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and
>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted
>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the
>>>> tow line and helped with comms.
>>>> 
>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men.
>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were
>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think
>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers!
>>>> 
>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of
>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for
>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always
>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like
>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more
>>>> than I can remember last week.
>>>> 
>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever
>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300.
>>>> 
>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal
>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting
>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean.
>>>> 
>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to
>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We
>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did
>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about
>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow
>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that
>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS
>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the
>>>> bottom at 100 − 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler!
>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did
>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about
>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about,
>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff
>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5
>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water
>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think
>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great
>>>> accomplishment with the mission.
>>>> 
>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow
>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat
>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so
>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to
>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel
>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then
>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and
>>>> sub to track straight).
>>>> 
>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves
>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this
>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner,
>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can
>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow
>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support
>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of
>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend
>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S.
>>>> 
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