[PSUBS-MAILIST] actuated valves?

Tue Apr 18 17:27:15 EDT 2017

There are 2 styles of solenoid valves,  Pilot operated and direct acting.  The pilot operated ones need a differential and are mostly unsuitable for getting the last bit of air out.  You need direct acting solenoid valves.  I have one from Parker.  There are also co-axial valves which are direct acting and ideal for the use but all have the same issues with the solenoid coil.  Most coils these days are enclosed in plastic but have an issue where the wires go in.  One fix maybe to pot the top of the solenoid valve.  Mine on the Comsub are all immersed in an oil bath.   New sub I am using air actuated shuttle (co-axial) valves.  We have just developed a ½” SS shuttle valve for 7500 psi gas operated by 6-7 bar ( 100 psi ) operating pilot pressure.   Our valves are mostly all balanced.  www.eclipsevalves.com  We would certainly do a deal for P-subbers.

Chs,  Hugh

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Sunday, 16 April 2017 9:43 AM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] actuated valves?

I have 3 of the red hat style 24V solenoid valves on the ballast tank of my ambient.

   They work really well but they are a tiny bit more complicated than you think

& are susceptible to corrosion. Be aware that the most common types of solenoid

valves use water or air pressure to help them open, & so are no good on a ballast

tank.

Hugh, ( who owns a valve firm ) hadn't found a suitable product when we discussed

them a few years ago.

Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 16/04/2017, at 8:40 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

I use a lot of the new ones - the ASCO "Next Generation" Red Hat valves with 24 VDC coils. The electrical characteristics are excellent, and they perform well in any position. I just use the standard enclosures, but you can get them in NEMA 4X. Don't know how these would take to submerged / compensated use, but they would be pretty easy to modify for that purpose. The housings come with an integral 1/2 NPTF for a conduit fitting - you could easily install a Swagelok tube fitting instead for dielectric oil compensation. ASCO does make a line of solenoid valves for naval / marine use, but these have only the basic coil electronics and a plastic housing that makes them submersible to fifteen feet. Not the ideal coils for battery power though. If I could modify the housing and / or compensate to make them work, I'd be more inclined to use the Next Gen Red Hats.

Sean

On April 15, 2017 12:03:36 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

I used the red hat valves on my ROV, they are very good quality, but I doubt they are air tight.  

On Saturday, April 15, 2017 11:36 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

There are some Red Hat solenoid valves ! that are advertised as submersible to 15 feet and have the wires coming out an NPT port, so those could be compensated easily. But they cost a bit more than the air suspension ones.

On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 1:27 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Alec,

The valves are not air tight, the coil sits in the water.  It comes down to cost really. Sean has a nice idea but your looking at thousands.  An oil bath valve bank will cost  around 500 dollars to set up.  In my mind both will work, I am making an oil bath valve bank for Elementary just because I don't know if it might go in salt water.   We are happy to fill our  motors with oil, why not electro magnets.

Greg,

There are tons of air suspension valves  on Ebay with  switch panels even.   I would go with the Valve bank type if your going to oil bath it.

On Saturday, April 15, 2017 10:44 AM, james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote:

Hank,

Where to get the valves? Thanks, Greg.

  _____  

From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs. org <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > 
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] actuated valves?

Alec,

If you want simple, look at electric solenoid valves for venting the tanks.  You can buy 8 valves for 100 dollars.  You can plumb the tanks together to create 4 zones or you can install one valve directly to each tank (12)   The beauty of using more valves is safety.  If one fails, no big issue.  You can wire 3 valves together so only need a 5 wire penetrator.  The nice thing about this idea is it is cheap to experiment with and! no modification to the tanks or sub.  

you will need check valves on the air feed lines so the tanks are not connected.  No point in venting one zone if it can send or receive air to another zone.  

If you are reluctant to use unprotected valves in fresh water, I can say the ones we used on our log salvage ROV never once gave us a problem in two years of operation.  I am talking many thousands of dives, actually one dive every 7 minutes.  

If your in salt water then you may want to go with an electric valve bank with four valves where the valve bank is in an oil tank with a bladder mounted behind the CT.   That is how my hydrau! lic valve works for my new manipulator.  It is fast and easy to set up, and is what I will do for Elementary.  In the mean time you can use cheap valves to figure it all out.  Your entire fix (experiment) can be under 200 dollars, then go to oil bath solenoids.

Hank

On Saturday, April 15, 2017 6:12 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote:

Hi all,

I'm mulling over options for re-plumbing Shackleton's MBTs. I can go with re-positioned tubing or remotely actuated valves. In principle the tubing is easier, but I'm trying to think through all possibilities before deciding, and just thought of a new option. There's six tanks per side, and the tanks are small so it would be a challenge to put a mushroom valve inside each tank. Besides, that would be a dozen valves. However, I could also do! just two valves per side, mounted outside and above the tanks, with very short hoses or tubes leading from three tanks to each valve. There is space, and because the valves would be outside the tanks I have a lot more freedom for the size or geometry of the valves. Maybe even normal ball valves actuated by a little air cylinder. This system would allow for fore-aft and side-to-side control, and would be highly resistant to list-induced water blocking. 

Anyone have thoughts on the KISSest way to control valves? For example, something that could work with unregulated 3K psi air?

Thanks,

Alec

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