[PSUBS-MAILIST] SOLENOID BALLAST VALVE

Wed Oct 19 15:52:03 EDT 2016

Hi Keith, 
Vance's original design that I based this on, had a pneumatic cylinder.
For that you would need to put a Tee off your ballast fill air line then
a 3 way valve for pressurising the cylinder & venting it in to the hull
for it to return. Then you need a pneumatic cylinder that operates
reliably in saltwater. The pneumatic cylinder would see ambient water
pressure against the outside of it's piston seals for the dive duration
& I would not be sure that what I bought was designed for external pressure.
Having said all that, it was a design that worked.
In my design the wire in the solenoid coil is already coated, so when I have wound it, it
is just a matter of adding a couple of protective coats of epoxy, then the
potting of the through hull fitting.
On my ambient sub I have solenoid valves for fill & empty. Everything worked
remotely off a play station 2 controller with the push of a button. It worked great
but everything needs beefing up for the next sub.
Cheers Alan

Sent from my iPad

> On 20/10/2016, at 7:46 am, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> How about using a pneumatic operated valve, using air from the ballast blow manifold. No shorts, no potting, etc.
> 
> Keith T.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> 
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Date: 10/19/16 11:21 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SOLENOID BALLAST VALVE
> 
> Hank,
> no, I spent a lot of time looking for something suitable. Although I
> did find an expensive stainless solenoid valve it would need to protrude
> about 3" above the ballast tank & I would still have to waterproof the
> wiring.
> This way it will be flush with the top of the tank & easy to mount.
> There will need to be a slightly larger gap between the iron plunger &
> the coil so no muck jams it & so the epoxy on the core doesn't wear.
> It would be simple to have a gyro & piece of electronics to control the
> ballast fill on all tanks similtaneously, so you descended evenly at the
> press of a button.
> Alan
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 20/10/2016, at 1:16 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Alan,
>> Okay got it, makes sense now.  is there a commercial flush valve like your building?  I sure like that!
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 9:11 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hank, the bottom valve is different from the top &
>> the water will force out against the spring closure.
>> It will need to be a lot larger.
>> I intend to tow this sub at fast speed to off shore Island groups &
>> it will let me ride a bit higher if the bottom is sealed.
>> With constant pounding on waves there would be compression
>> of the air in the ballast tank that would let more & more water in.
>> Also a bit of redundancy if you left the sub sitting in the water
>> over night.
>> Alan
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On 19/10/2016, at 12:32 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Alan,
>>> Why do you want two valves, one for water in and one for air out"   When you are submerged you will add air, but you will have to open the bottom valve to let water out.  but they are connected, so you will be letting your air out.  Nice valve, I like how it is enclosed in the tank.
>>> Hank
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 2:37 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> No. Failure mode is I won't be able to dive. If you were desperate you could unbolt
>>> the bottom valves & get a diver to depress the top valves. If the wiring thickness &
>>> windings are calculated with a large margin of error against burning out,
>>> & the wire is protected against breakage, it should be pretty reliable. My ambient
>>> has solenoid valves, but they were modified commercial valves that could corrode.
>>> This gives you the liberty of operating the valves from a portable module.
>>> Not shown in the drawing is a wire gauss that will stop the ingress of rubbish.
>>> Alan  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>>> On 18/10/2016, at 9:18 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Alan,     Will you have a mechanical valve for back up ?
>>>>  
>>>> Brian
>>>> 
>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SOLENOID BALLAST VALVE
>>>> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 07:43:50 +0000 (UTC)
>>>> 
>>>> I have been working on my ballast valve design. (below)
>>>> It's based on the drawing Vance handed out at the Islamorada convention,
>>>> except it's operated by a solenoid rather than an air cylinder.
>>>> I am intending to have a similar valve on the bottom of my ballast tank,
>>>> but modified so that the sealing gasket sits on the outside of the top plate
>>>> & pushes away.
>>>> I will be able to use the same wire on the top valve on the coil of the bottom
>>>> valve so they work in unison. Just a matter of getting the right thickness
>>>> of wire & number of turns.
>>>> If it fails you won't be able to release air to dive, but will always be able to
>>>> fill the tanks with air.
>>>> The iron core of the plunger will need to be coated. The wiring of the solenoid
>>>> is already coated but I'll add a bit of epoxy.
>>>> The intended assembly method is to cut a whole in the top of the ballast tank
>>>> & drop the module in. Then use the bolt holes in the top plate as a template
>>>> for holes through the ballast tank. The ballast tank holes are then oversized
>>>> to receive threaded inserts that are epoxied in from the inside. Then the valve
>>>> is dropped in & bolted down.
>>>> I am thinking of doing it all in hard anodized aluminum but are not quite sure.
>>>> I am intending to weld the body to the top plate.
>>>> Any thoughts???
>>>> Alan 
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