[PSUBS-MAILIST] ill after a Psub Weekend AW: Project Pilot Fish

Wed Nov 16 06:28:40 EST 2016

The 5 to 10 times higher CO2 concentration does not help either…

Antoine mentioned that bacteria growth is also a problem on longer trips. I clean the interior regular with a alcohol cleaner (no , not the acrylic.)

Any smell is gone then.

When I spend 5 Hours UW, I am just tired..

Br, Emile

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: woensdag 16 november 2016 0:27
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ill after a Psub Weekend AW: Project Pilot Fish

Antoine I have a simillar problem. 

Higher concentration of CO on the co meter after charging the AGMs - Its obviously H2. 

But by now I had have it two times after a day in the sub that I have headeges the next morning and feel very sick. 

And have no idear why. Maybe to much stress, Maybe gases. Maybe exhaust fummes. Maybe electromagnetic smog. 

Could be expensive and time consumption to figure out what it is. 

Carsten

-----Original-Nachricht-----

Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish

Datum: 2016-11-15T23:44:07+0100

Von: "emile via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Great coverage Antoine!

Is the problem now solved as you know it is no CO?

Regards, Emlle

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: dinsdag 15 november 2016 22:16
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish

Hello Alan, and everyone, 

Following our trial dives in the Channel last summer, here is a video aired on French TV last week end: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv9kIQpqLSU <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv9kIQpqLSU&t=42s> &t=42s

As a follow up on the subject of the thread, I got my hands on a H2 compensated CO sensor, and a non H2 compensated CO sensor which I used for some tests monitoring both H2 and CO separately: 

-the cabin of the sub without the batteries nor humans gives no CO whatsoever, that is after a couple of weeks closed with a bit of sun heat. So for me the paint as a CO source is cleared. It still does not smell good inside, so I guess I will do a full gas chromatography just to know what is inside. Bets are on... btw for those interested in long dives, I found useful documentation online " spacecraft maximum allowed concentration for selected airborne contaminants"

-the batteries, which are sealed AGM  type, still leak off a tiny amount of H2, about 10mL per hour of H2 when idle, fully disconnected. I initially thought this could be due to poor charging or discharging practice, but even my two reserves batteries behave this way, and those have been handled carefully since I bouth them 2 years ago. 

So beware sealed batteries may not be perfectly sealed... still far far below explosivity level though...

regards,

Antoine

regards,

Antoine

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 8:23 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Antoine,

if you are not already under the water again,

what about changing the batteries for sealed lead acid batteries.

These won't let out any gas unless overcharged or on high discharge.

Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 8/08/2016, at 4:40 am, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

yes we bag the batteries,

the paint is two years old, we will see if there is still readings after that.

regards

Antoine

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 6:15 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Antoine,

How are you making a cover?  Are you simply bagging the batteries?  

I actually thought it was the paint also.

Hank

On Sunday, August 7, 2016 9:56 AM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Hi Alan and everyone

Ok Carsten you may be right. We tested the batteries and they do trigger the CO readings. so that is hydrogen right? no possibility to emit CO for a battery?

but they do so when disconnected, neither when charged nor discharged! which is puzzling.

for now we are making a cover for the batteries and we ll put our catalyst Inside.

regards

Antoine

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 4:49 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

I wonder if there is anything coming out of the interior paint over time.

sometimes paint takes months to dry properly.

Or I have heard of the monitors being upset by paint fumes even though

they are not CO. You could heat up a section of paint work to help accelerate 

any leaching of chemicals, & tape a plastic bag with your CO meter in it

over the heated area of paint. If this is the problem go home & heat the interior

for as many weeks as it takes.

You will get there eventually. Most of the hard work has been done already.

All the best.

Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 7/08/2016, at 12:22 pm, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote:

not sure H2 could be the culprit, as we charge batteries with open hatch and then when diving we use minimal power levels.

We do have active charcoal and Sofnocat H2/CO catalyst (which by the way was warm when the CO level became high and we pulled it out)

regards

Antoine

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:38 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote:

Has Pilotfish Activcoal filter? Katalyst for H2 burning?

CO2 scrubber works normal on a little higher CO2 niveau than normal. 

Some O2 mask for half our all 6 hours use or so could make it a better stay. 

Two person in such a tiny space for so long..

B.Voyage.. Carsten

-----Original-Nachricht-----

Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish

Datum: 2016-08-06T18:29:49+0200

Von: "emile via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.o rg <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >

An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.o rg <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >

Carsten , Antoine,

The batteries are not charged inside the sub. If the CO sensor is so sensitive on H2, this might be the problem.

Sensor electronics failure due to the high humidity is also a possibility.

I never measure as my mission duration is much shorter.

Emile

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org <mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org> ] Namens MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: zaterdag 6 augustus 2016 18:12
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish

Antoine - if my CO Monitor on the Euronaut  shows me 300 ppm CO this means probably it is 60 ppm H2. 

The sensor count both and shows H2 fifes time higher than it is. Will see what the blood test shows. 

Do you charge batteries inside the sub during the Travel?

vbr Carsten

-----Original-Nachricht-----

Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish

Datum: 2016-08-06T17:31:39+0200

Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.o rg <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >

An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.o rg <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >

Hello everyone, 

we had to abort our trip not far after the beginning, as we detected quite a lot of carbon monoxide build up in the cabin, and could not find what it was and how to manage it. it basically reached 300ppm after 10 hours which is huge. We had brought some catalytic filter to human CO production twenty times lower than that. So the catalyst filter was not really able to get the rate down. It is not oxygen pollution. 

The sensor may be off but we just did a blood test confirming level a bit above the normal levels. 

that leaves maybe some chemicals like some glue we took in the tool box for repairs... 

 It would have been too dangerous to be at sea with such creeping CO level. 

We probably now cannot make it for this tide window. We ll decide tonight what we do

regards

Antoine

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:09 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.o rg <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote:

Hi Emile,

Do you know when the surface boat will be here in Guernsey?  I would like to go and meet them maybe.

James

On Friday, 5 August 2016, emile via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.o rg <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote:

Hi Alan,

I also wanted t notify the group about the start. The Fb page of the project
is the quickest link for info with sometimes near live video.
A friend who supplied the comsets will be on the surface vessel from
Guernsey to st. Malo
The air quality  or bad luck can cause failure; not the sub  or the crew!

Regards, Emile

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org <mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org> ]
Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: vrijdag 5 augustus 2016 14:39
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Project Pilot Fish

I have just seen on Facebook that Project Pilot Fish, where the guys are
peddling their submarine across the English Channel, has started. I saw a
video of them being towed out to sea. Emile did a lot of the build.
Hope they make it, but have my doubts as it is quite a feat.
If anyone (Emile) can update the group on the progress, it would be
appreciated.
Antoine has done an amazing job bringing this all together & getting
sponsorship.
Alan

Sent from my iPad
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