[PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers

Wed Apr 20 22:00:30 EDT 2016

Ah, I didn't realize you had managed to retain the "flying" mode after the
recent mods. For some reason I was thinking they had turned your boat into
a more conventional one, but that's excellent, like having two boats in
one. The "too aggressive" rolling will probably be fantastic in really
clear water. Thanks for the clarifications.

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:46 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> I have a three axis joystick.  When the joystick is tilted starboard and
> port, this generates roll movement using the vertical thrusters.  When the
> joystick is moved forward and backward, the PLC sends the same signal to
> each of the vertical thrusters which if the boat is moving forward  in the
> water column, caused the boat to pitch down or up.  If stationary in the
> water column, then moving he joystick up and down caused the boat to
> descend or ascend.
>
> On my HMI, I have a button that toggles through different ways of
> controlling the vertical thrusters.  In the flying mode, they are
> controlled by joystick as described above.  I have a second setting that
> locks out the roll.  I have a third setting that takes the vertical
> thruster control away from the joystick and gives it to a rocker switch for
> descending and ascending.  In this mode, each time the up rocker switch is
> hit, then I increment the vertical thruster speed trying to ascend. In this
> mode each time the down rocker switch is hit, the vertical thrusters
> operate in the opposite direction.   So pushing the up button you go up and
> down button you down.  You keep pushing the buttons to get incrementally
> more and more speed.
>
> I have a 2.5 inch spread between my GB and GG when submerged.  With 100 lb
> vertical thrusters, I found I can generate quite a larger rolling moment.
> I implemented the lock out roll function because some times the roll effect
> is just to aggressive.  The nice thing about PLC and fly wire is that it is
> very easy to reassign the functions of the three axis joystick and foot
> control by just rewriting some ladder logic.
>
> I have four MK motor controllers, one for each thruster.  The analog
> output module on the plc uses four 0-5v output channels, one to each
> MK-motor controller. This enables me to operate the thrusters
> completely independently or coupled in any fashion I want.  I love this
> flexibility of the PLCs.
>
>
> Cliff
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 7:56 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Cliff,
>> it was interesting to see the ergonomics of their design with the heel
>> section for the dual operating option.
>> I had thought you might have gone for two foot pedals & got the tractor
>> steering from that, but at least you are freeing up one hand. That's
>> clever
>> the way you have integrated the joy stick.
>> Are your vertical thrusters operated off your joystick?
>> That 5V analog input fits with the Kelly controller.
>> I am thinking of two foot pedals with a left & right motion for the
>> vertical
>> thrusters similar to the Deep Worker. I think Phil was selling the foot
>> controls,
>> but fear it might be more than you paid.
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 21, 2016 11:50 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers
>>
>> Alan, I use a foot control from OEM controls. This is a
>> hall effect potentiometer made for mobile heavy equipment.  It is very
>> beefy.  http://www.oemcontrols.com/datasheets/hfp4.pdf is a link to the
>> unit.  I am using model number HFP4M17445.  This a heavy duty commercial
>> grade foot control.  The version I have sends a 0-5vdc signal with the 2.5V
>> as the neutral position, 5V for full forward and 0v for full reverse.  I
>> have really been happy with the unit.  Feels rock solid.  I take the signal
>> into my PLC on an analog input channel.  I have some ladder logic that
>> enable me to integrate both the foot control signal and the rotation axis
>> of my 3 axis joy stick control to both aft horizontal thrusters.   If the
>> joy still rotary axis is in neutral position, then both aft thrusters get
>> the same signal such that the more forward you push on the foot control the
>> more forward thrust, the faster you go.  When you push down with your heal
>> the thrusters reverse proportional to the how far back you tilt the foot
>> control.  This gives me great forward/reverse and control. When the joy
>> stick is rotated in a clockwise manner, in PLC ladder logic I start
>> increasing the speed of the port aft horizontal thruster and decreasing the
>> speed of the starboard aft thruster.  This enables me at speed to turn to
>> the starboard side. Rotating the joystick in the counter clockwise
>> direction caused the boat to turn the port side.  If the foot control is in
>> the neutral position, then rotating the joy stick rotates the boat about
>> its center of gravity.  I have really been happy with how much control this
>> gives at any speed.
>>
>> Now on the negative side, the foot controller is expensive at $328. I am
>> sure with a little looking you could find one that does the same thing at a
>> reduced cost.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>> Cliff,
>> can you tell me a bit about your foot controls.
>> Is it an off the shelf system? Is it forward, back,up & down
>> on all motors? How is it working out, was it reasonably
>> intuitive to operate?
>> Thanks Alan
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 21, 2016 5:40 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers
>>
>> By changing resistors you can use 0 to 5 Vdc.
>>
>> Cliff
>>
>>
>> Cliff Redus
>>
>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 8:08 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Cliff,
>> I was a bit wary as in my search for BLDC ESCs a lot of their options
>> said "reverse"
>> but were only a programable function that enabled you to change
>> from forward to reverse without having to disconnect the wires.
>> You couldn't actually flick a switch on your transmitter & reverse
>> the motor. BTW it says 0-2V on page 26.
>> Cheers Alan
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 20/04/2016, at 11:06 pm, via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>> Reversing is fully integrated.  See page 27 of users manual at
>> http://downloads.ionmc.com/docs/roboclaw_user_manual.pdf  for analog
>> control.  0v signal gives full speed one direction, 5v gives full speed in
>> opposite direction and 2.5v is off.
>>
>> Cliff
>>
>>
>> Cliff Redus
>>
>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 10:38 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>> Cliff / Alec,
>> I couldn't see anything about a reverse function on the USB RoboClaw
>> 2x60A HV Brushed DC motor controller.
>> It may be a bit of work making up the reversing circuit & integrating it
>> with the controller if
>> it doesn't have that function.
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 2:51 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers
>>
>> At Robotshop.com <http://robotshop.com/>, the USB RoboClaw 2x60A HV
>> Brushed DC motor controller would work just as well.  Each board would
>> control two of the MK101s independently.  Has a lot of flexibility on input
>> signal.  If you are using PLC, send it a 0-5vdc analog signal.
>>
>>
>> Cliff
>>
>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Cliff. Is the controller a component you pulled from inside the MK
>> trolling motor or is it a standalone product? I did a few searches and have
>> not turned up anything standalone. I do have such a unit (really old) but
>> it's for a way lower-powered motor than the 101s.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Alec
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:58 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>> Alan/Alec, I use Minn Kota 36v controllers for each of my 4 thrusters.
>> They have worked great.  They are potted and rugged.  They have an internal
>> relay with a dead band around 2.5v signal voltage.  This means that
>> absolutely no current flows even if you left the motor controller powered
>> up while in the garage.
>>
>> My previous motor controller for my big traction motor was from Curtis.
>> This worked great but generated a high pitch noise that was irritating.
>>
>>
>> Cliff Redus
>>
>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>> What did Cliff use?
>> He has been through this process recently with a 101.
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:12 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers
>>
>> No, the one I was considering was not for brushless motors. It's the
>> Roboteq XDC2460, rated for 80A continuous duty per channel. But now I'm
>> looking at Kelly I really like what I'm seeing there too, and Curtis seems
>> to be similar. This will probably come down to a decision between a more
>> advanced  dual channel from Roboteq or a super simple single-channel
>> controllers from the likes of Curtis/Kelly. In general if the simpler one
>> can do the job, it's the one I would prefer even if it cost the same.
>>
>> Thanks guys for all the input!
>>
>> Alec
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alec,
>> that one says brushless?
>> On the Kelly faq page for selecting controllers it suggests.....
>> HOW TO CHOOSE A SUITABLE CONTROLLER FOR THE MOTOR?
>> Usually the performance will be optimized if the power of the controller
>> is 2.0-3.0 times of the motor's.
>>    I guess that means if you have a 2000W motor you get a controller
>> whose continual
>> amp rating X max voltage is at least 4000W.
>>    I have heard that it is better to aire on the safe side as some
>> manufacturers over rate
>> their controllers. Kelly have a reputation of being good & cheap, & their
>> ratings accurate,
>> however Hugh has had problems with them & I wired up mine yesterday & the
>> ON light
>> isn't working when powered up. I put power on it once without the
>> pre-ignition resister
>> so this may have stuffed it, but surely it wouldn't be so fickle!
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:45 AM
>> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I need to finalize my selection of speed controllers for Shackleton over
>> the next week or so, and at first blush am looking at this one from Roboteq:
>>
>>
>> http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/docman/motor-controllers-documents-and-files/documentation/datasheets/hbl23xx/59-hbl23xx-datasheet/file
>>
>> There will be two of them, each driving a pair of MK101 thrusters.
>> Roboteq offers a controller family that is a step down from this and still
>> handles the required amperage, and which is tempting because it's much less
>> expensive. However, the specs are too close for comfort (50A continuous
>> duty rating vs. MK101 requirement of 46A).
>>
>> Anyone have any suggestions for other cost-effective controllers to
>> consider?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Alec
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20160420/17dc9292/attachment-0001.html>