[PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar

Sat May 16 20:42:30 EDT 2015

Cliff,just watched a video where Doug Jackson pressure tested a LowranceSpotlight scanning transducer to 2000 psi & it was still working.Not all transducers are the same, but it does look hopeful.Alan
      From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
 Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 7:32 AM
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar

Still not convinced these transducers need to be protected from pressure.  I have a small test chamber I built to test my new LED housing.  I may pop the DST800 in and do some testing.  I am pretty sure the DST800 is fully potted and such, now where for water to go.
Cliff

   From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
 Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:14 PM
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar

Cliff, Scott,I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garminhttp://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/& the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad orthe Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducersconstruction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi.I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth)The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment.The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot throughfiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normalboating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape.   The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma. That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plateI suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it tothe hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull.I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will thepaddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics??cheers, Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft.  My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure.  
BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800 DST800 —Thru-Hull, Smart™ Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers part of my R300 upgrade.  This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp.  The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial feed into a coprocessor on my PLC.  I then can parse the string to get data.  I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading.  This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing.
I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap.  
Cliff

Cliff Redus
Redus Engineering
USA mobile:  830-931-1280
cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com 
      From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
 Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar

Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple ofexhibitors about sonar / depth sounders.I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar insidea fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting.They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass.Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarinewith a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that.For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 forplastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth.Quote from installation pdfs below......As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on manyfiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside ofthe boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonarcharacteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass throughthe boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must besingle layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any airtrapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent thesonar signal from passing through.Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into theboat and through experimentation, high-speed operationcomparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-partslow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place.......In-hull: Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. “Shoot through hull” transducers do not need direct water contact. They’re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times.In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material.Alan

     From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
 Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar

Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price.
They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market.
Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than
the Sinrad 2d.
Alan 

Sent from my iPad

> On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Alan,
> Check this system out, you probably have seen it.  This would be very nice to have.
> Hank
>> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk <hankpronk at live.ca> wrote:
>> 
>> From: hank pronk <hankpronk at live.ca>
>> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar
>> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/
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