[PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights

Wed Jul 22 16:17:17 EDT 2015

Ken, yes relative to incandescent, LEDs don't get as hot but having said
that if I run the 5000 lumen Bridgelux LED for 5 minutes within the housing
but out in the air, it get pretty hot. To me the advantage of Borosilicate
glass over polycarbonate or acrylic is the glass is a lot stronger thus we
can withstand the design pressure easier thus a thinner lens.  Also, with
Borosilicate glass, the lens is going to be less likely to get scratched up
with handling.

Cliff

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> LED lamps don’t get very hot so the heat resistant borosilicate may not be
> necessary. Polycarbonate may work.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus
> via Personal_Submersibles
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 8:36 AM
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
>
>
> Good points.  Do you know of an OTS source for sapphire lenses?  The nice
> thing about using heat resistant Borosilicate glass is that it is OTS
> www.mcmaster.com/#standard-borosilicate-glass/=y5urr8.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Just looking on the Deep Sea Power & Light site & their
>
> high power light is 11,000 lumens whereas their standard
>
> light is around 6,000. So I don't think we need to go any
>
> more than 10,000.
>
> They use saphire lenses, & lights are rated for around 10,000 psi.
>
> I would prefer not using oil. I think it yellows with the heat &
>
> needs to be changed. It would help with the heat disipation though,
>
> & that aspect may take a bit of thinking about.
>
> I mentioned in a previous thread that the capacitors overheating are the
> main
>
> reason for failure. We discussed the idea of using a heat dispersing epoxy
>
> & maybe an alluminium sleeve over the capacitors to take the heat away.
>
> Maybe all the electronics could sit on a thick alluminium plate that is
> screwed
>
> in to the housing.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 2:54 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
>
>
> Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful
> that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat  or the
> manufacture solder joint would fail.  The 5000 lumen  Vero 18 has a
> diameter of 3.6 cm.  The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger.  My
> major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that
> it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to
> dissipate.  Even though you would save money on connectors as you say,
> I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it
> easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current.  Also
> with the smaller housing,  if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it
> would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing.  Also if we
> stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it
> won't have be submerged to operate.
>
>
>
> The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you.  Can't imagine what a 10,000
> lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light!
>
>
>
> Not locked to anything at this point.
>
>
>
> Cliff
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's
> under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're
> talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output.
> Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4
> amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of
> these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be
> that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it
> might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of
> four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this
> case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub.
>
>
>
> A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated:
>
>
>
> - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need
> it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a
> depth test.
>
> - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance.
>
> - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal
> expansion.
>
> - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because
> it will keep the oil in reliably!
>
>
>
> Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
> Alec
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon
>
>
>
> More Thoughts
>
>
>
> After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it
> would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body
> 1-atm LED light and a  short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation.  My
> thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as
> a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing  just large
> enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base.  Should
> be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should
> be able to use the same  Subconn MCBH-3MP connector.  We get a good
> discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs.  This design uses a hard
> anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the
> lens.  The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not
> have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on
> beam angle.
>
>
>
> To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up
> with.  From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call
> out are :
>
>
>
> 1) design depth,
>
> 2) 1-atm vs  oil pressure compensated,
>
> 3) housing material
>
> 4) type of electrical penetrator
>
>
>
>  I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC.  Using feedback
> from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do
> the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to
> machine the housing.  If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine
> shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can
> test it in my test chamber.  For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk
> has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download
> for free and to view and critique design iterations.
>
>
>
>
> Cliff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Ken,
>
> a few thoughts once you have settled on the
>
> electronics are.....
>
> Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing?
>
> Do we want the housing oil filled?
>
> What sealing configuration do we want?
>
> What beam angle do we want?
>
> What sort of reflector?
>
> What sort of lense?
>
> How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing?
>
>    Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off
>
> the shelf at a reasonable price.
>
> Cheers Alan
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
>
>
> The electronics and custom PWB won’t be the issue. Figuring out what we
> want may be the biggest problem.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus
> via Personal_Submersibles
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
>
>
> Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project.
> I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers.
> After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB
> for the electronics.  Having just gone through the exercise of designing a
> 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing.
>
> Cliff
> On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Cliff,
>
> I'm on board with the LED light project.
>
> Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED
>
> flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses.
>
> I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED
>
> lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side.
>
> Alan
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
>
>
> Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my
> email service not passing through psub emails.  I had to go to a gmail
> email account to get back in the loop.
>
>
>
> I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux
> Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) .   I can help on the housing design and I
> have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test
> chamber we can use to qualify the prototype.  Maybe we could pick one of
> the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a
> typical psubs application.
>
>
>
> We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location,
> accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and
> testing to keep from swamping the PSUB  list.
>
>
>
> I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more
> lumens.  It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light.
>
>
>
> My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea.
> Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on
> the project as a first step.  Given your background in EE, maybe you could
> come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it.
>
>
>
> Cliff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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