[PSUBS-MAILIST] bolt in penetration
Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sat Jan 10 16:07:05 EST 2015
Maybe it is being disgarded because it is out of testlike an old scuba tank! There may be markings on the sphere.If it fails hydro tests for internal pressure does that necessarilymean that it would be weaker when undergoing external pressure?Alan
From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2015 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] bolt in penetration
Sean,
I had Brian look for a plate and there is none. I will start by trying to find the manufacturer through the university on Monday.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 1/10/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] bolt in penetration
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Saturday, January 10, 2015, 3:15 PM
If the university doesn't have the info, it
should at least be traceable. All vessels built to ASME
Section VIII Division 1 require a nameplate that will list
the manufacturer, serial number, etc. Failing that,
metallurgical tests are possible, but a bit more
involved.
Sean
On January 10, 2015
12:54:26 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Sean,
Is
there a on site test that can be done to determine the
alloy?
Hank
On Sat, 1/10/15, Sean T. Stevenson via
Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
bolt in penetration
To: "Personal
Submersibles General Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Saturday, January 10, 2015, 2:46 PM
Parallel projects... Sister
subs... Could be
fun.
Sean
On January 10, 2015
12:19:38 PM MST, hank pronk via
Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Yes but
there two of them.
Hank
On
Sat, 1/10/15, Sean T. Stevenson via
Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST]
bolt in penetration
To: "Personal
Submersibles General
Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Saturday, January 10, 2015, 2:16
PM
If it is suitable, I
presume
you're calling
dibs?
Sean
On
January 10, 2015
12:10:14 PM MST, hank
pronk via
Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Sean,
I
may
be able to on Monday. The sphere
was
owned
by a university
and we can contact them to find the
manufacturer. Given that is was used as a
pressure vessel
paid for by a
university
working on a government project,
I
have to
assume it is
good stuff. Not very scientific but a
fair assumption at!
this
stage. Luckily it is right in
Brian's
back yard in California so he
was able to look
at it and might be able
to do some detective
work.
Hank
On Sat, 1/10/15, Sean T. Stevenson
via
Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:
Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST]
bolt in
penetration
To: "Personal
Submersibles General
Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Saturday, January 10, 2015,
2:02
PM
Hank, any chance you
can
find out what the alloy
is? This will have
a
profound effect on its efficacy.
Sean
On!
January
10, 2015
11:51:22
AM MST, hank pronk
via
Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:
Sean,
Thank
you, that is helpful. My idea was
to
make the insert as t!
ight as
possible (sweat it
in) I a!
m
not
sure if the difference in material
would cause a problem
though. The idea of
seating
the port into
the shell a good
option
also. I am just chewing the fat here, I have
enough
on my plate but it
is
fun to think
about. I
was wrong about
the size, the
sphere is 6
feet and I wrote
60 in. I imagine
that
kills the rating quite a bit?
Hank
On Sat, 1/10/15,
Sean
T.
Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:
Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST]
bolt in
penetration
To: "Personal
Submersibles General
Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Saturday, January 10, 2015!
,
1:40
PM
You could certainly!
do
that,
although a
three inch
thick shell is pretty
!
substantial - I might consider
machining
eg. conical window
seats in
the
hull sh!
ell
directly,
and then
derating the
hull
to a depth
whereby
the
actual hull
thickness is the effective
derated thickness
plus the effective
reinforcement, which
just
happens to be a
contiguous shell. The
bolt-in
arrangement
would not act
as
hull
reinforcement though -
unless it was a force fit in the
hole.
The idea of reinforcements around
openings is to
provide
material around the
hole to
carry the shell
hoop
stresses that
would
otherwise have passed through the
material in the opening, such that you
don't increase
the
nominal shell
stress. This requires a
(relatively)
smooth
load
path to redirect
stress
around the hol!
e.
Br!
ian
recently
asked
me
about the
effectiveness of reinforcements
like perpendicular flanges lining the
hole,
and this is a
bit complicated, because
some
stress i!
s
indeed
redirected into
such a flange, but the
load
is not evenly
distributed as you move
inboar!
d or
outboard
away from the
hull
shell (with
diminishing returns at
increasing
distances),
and you also introduce a
stress
concentration
at
the
perpendicular
transition. Ideally,
reinforcements
should
be an effective
thickening of the hull in the region
immediately adjacent to
the
opening, tapered
smoothly
back
(something
like
4:1) into the hull
shell
to provide
a
continuous load path
with
no stress
concentrations at abrupt
changes in geometry.
Sean
On
January 10, 2015 8:25:39
!
AM
MST, hank pronk via
Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:
Is it feasible
to
have a
bolt in penetration in a 3 inch
thick sphere
hull. I
am
picturing machining
a hole
in
the hull,
then
inserting a
window housing
with a
shoulder!
(flange)
that fits tight in
the hole and is bolted
in
place. Can that arrangement
act
as reinforcement for
the
hul!
l.
Hank
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