[PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question

Tue May 20 08:21:35 EDT 2014

Better a question for Phil, I think. Gamma has 2 hp and weighs 2 tons. PC-12 had a combined 13 hp for 8 tons (10 main plus two horizontal and one vertical maneuvering thruster). The Pisces boats used a pair of 5 hp thrusters for 12-12 tons. So it is beginning to look like about 1 to 1.5 per ton, now that I think about it.
Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, May 20, 2014 12:40 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question

Phil / Vance,
as a rule of thumb what would be a reasonable combined hp for horizontal travel
per ton of displacement, for a recreational sub. I make the distinction of recreational,
as it would probably require less than a working sub that can't be as selective of it's operating environment.
Thanks
Alan

   From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 9:41 AM
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question

For instance: Tide changes in the Gulf of Suez are abrupt and run to 6-7 knots. Try flying out from under an oil rig with THAT going on!!! Disney has no thrill rides to match it. Anyone having questions about crash bars in front of viewports should try riding 6-tons into an immovable object in spite of everything you could do to avoid it. Got me a couple of fresh gray hairs, that time.
Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question

A ‘box canyon’ type current pin is as Vance answered – the term comes from flying light aircraft into a box canyon – you can get into a situation where it is too narrow to turn around and the box end of the canyon is approaching fast –if you try to gain altitude to get out ,your ground speed diminishes to where you will hit the end of the canyon before getting high enough to get out. It’s a situation where, if you get yourself into it – yer gonna crash! 
In the case of    submersibles, it’s where you’re proceeding with a reef of rock or coral higher than your sub beside you and a strong current coming from behind, if the reef/bank/cliff takes an abrupt turn in front of you, and you have to  make a tight turn to avoid banging into it, the tail current can push you broadside against the reef with enough force as to pin you there - and your thrusters may not be powerful enough to free you. Not a desirable situation!
Phil

From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 10:09 AM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question

Vance - when you were piloting subs in the oilfields, what contingency plans were in place for rescue in the event of becoming disabled?

Sean

On 2014-05-19 10:46, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:

Pinned into some kind of "only one way out"   configuration by the currents. Kind of nerve wracking, that one.   
Vance

-----Original   Message-----
From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
To:   Personal Submersibles General Discussion mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent:   Mon, May 19, 2014 10:38 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial   question

What are    ‘box canyon’ current pins ?  I don't want to get stuck in one   !

--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:

From:   Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To:   "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re:   [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 22:31:18   -0700

Hi, Scott,

The major reason that quite a few operators prefer subs over ROV’s is the   absence of a surface  tether. This allows you to go places that you   shouldn’t and wouldn’t go with a machine because the risk of entanglement –   inside platform legs, pile jackets, etc., There are a number of other reasons   that have to do with the operators senses being right on the site rather than   a half a mile away. Difficult to explain is the ‘whole grasp’ scenario that   ROV operators who try manned subs almost always mention. Simply put, in a sub   with a wide view port or a 360 degree dome,  you have a strong sense of   where everything is – how long ago you passed that pipeline, what direction   it’s in to go back to, the lay of the bottom,  the trending of the   currents, where to find lees to hide in, how to avoid ‘box canyon’ current   pins, the ability to hit ‘auto altitude’ and fly a fixed height above a   pipeline or cable regardless of the bottom (and therefore the cable’s)   undulations. When it comes to doing complex work using manips, there’s no   contest man versus machines. Machines do get the work done if they are set up   properly, but much slower and with many tries, compared to the pilot whose   hand on the joystick is five feet away from the work .

You often hear ROV types say ‘well, it’s just the same as being there”. .   .  Yeah, right! just like telephone sex is the same as the real   thing!

I’ll get off my soapbox now.

Phil

From: swaters   via Personal_Submersibles 

Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:43 PM

To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 

Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question

I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and   cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the   commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has been   able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.

Thanks,

Scott Waters

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