[PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

Sun Jun 1 23:50:12 EDT 2014

Hi Dr Phil
I kinda had that feeling :-)  
Hank 

On Sunday, June 1, 2014 11:20:44 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Thanks Hugh,
that gerotor motor idea looks good.
Would a couple of counter balance valves be enough to stop
it's rototation & hold position. 
I would imagine that there isn't a perfect internal seal & with a bit of leverage on the manipulator grippers
it could rotate. Whether it would rotate enough to cause a problem, I don't know.
Alan

________________________________
 From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

Alan,
You are a real ferret.  Those manuals are great to get an understanding.
I am playing with a gerotor design but it is much simpler.  I have used a gerotor oil pump for years in the compressors we make and I believe it would be a much simpler design.
I am amazed at how similar in concept I am to that manual.  That will help me tidy up a few areas.  The tricky bit is the hydraulic locking mechanism they utilize.  Thanks for that.
Hugh

From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Monday, 2 June 2014 12:09 p.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

Scott,
here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals.
www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx
Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator.
Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there
are various gripper drawings with measurements
that would be a good basis for gripper design.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator.
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone
>
>Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs
 were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know.
>Vance
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hank,
>> That seems like very good advice.  I am wanting to do a manipulator but need
>> to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required.
>> What are the pumps you have found to work best.  What pressure do they
>> develop? I had no idea
 what a top pump was so googled it and came up with
>> breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some
>> more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the
>> large side diameter wise.  Any brand best?  Cheers,  Hugh 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
>> On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
>> Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m.
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
>> 
>> Scott,
>> No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.  I have made
>> many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a
>> lot.  Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.  A manipulator
>> is for manipulating not lifting.  With that in mind, large components are
>> not needed.  Simple air cylinders from ebay are  all that is needed.  A 2in
>> bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke
>> is all you need.  Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back
>> pressure.  I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.  Consider
>> using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.  No
 need
>> for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the
>> piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.  As for the arm
>> itself, if have made them from cardboard first.  You can mock it up that way
>> and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the  cylinders
>> stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square
>> tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is
>> folded up.  Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around.
>> Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000
>> dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like.
>> Hank
>>
 --------------------------------------------
>> On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM
>> 
>> Hey guys. I am
>> still working on the manipulator arm project for the K  boats. I am a
>> little overwhelmed as to what direction to  head. I really don't know where
>> to start
 because of my  lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as
>> to where  to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather  than
>> hydrolics just because of the amount of external  operating
>> peices. Thanks,Scott  Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent
>> from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone
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