[PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete
hank pronk
hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca
Sat Apr 12 22:55:29 EDT 2014
Marc,
We don't get segregation at all, when pumping it we fill the wall and then let it flow, I call it "ride the wave"
Also pumping the concrete helps hold the concrete together, it stays in a cylinder shape until it hits the wave. We must use fly ash because the aggregate and sand is washed so well there are no fines left. The jagged sand won't flow through the hose. Fly ash is like little ball bearings and makes it flow through the hose. These are the things that make me think a mold is the way to go. Four inches wall thickness would be a breeze for this mix.
That makes sense that the rock is a cheap filler. I would still use the pea gravel mix, I have made a test panel and I drove my bob-cat over a 2in thick 4by4 panel with no breakage. I know, very scientific .lol
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 4/12/14, Marc de Piolenc <piolenc at archivale.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Received: Saturday, April 12, 2014, 10:40 PM
Actually, all else being equal, using
only fine aggregate (sand) will give a stronger mix. Coarse
aggregate is needed mainly to make the mix affordable - as
bulk filler, in other words - and also for decorative effect
in some applications where the fresh concrete is brushed to
show off the aggregate.
You have to be careful, in very high-strength applications,
to make sure that the coarse aggregate is chemically inert
with respect to the cement matrix. Some siliceous aggregate
will weaken the concrete in the long term by reacting slowly
with the matrix long after cure.
Confusingly, very fine silica incorporated in the form of
fly ash, rice husk ash or silica fume can give a
super-HIGH-strength mix. The reason for the effect is that
the very fine silica reacts with the alkali formed DURING
cure and actually strengthens the cement matrix.
Unfortunately, much of the fly-ash and volcanic ash cement
on the market is too coarsely ground to harness this
effect.
Best,
Marc de Piolenc
Ferrocement freak
On 4/13/2014 8:58 AM, hank pronk wrote:
> Marc,
> If I am not mistaken, the strongest concrete mix uses
3/4in fractured rock with sand, Portland and water. I
would think a sand mix without rock would not be as
strong. Also think of the skill you would need to
trowel a sphere. Anyways it is pretty crazy what Sean
has shown us with the calculations.
> Hank
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 4/12/14, Marc de Piolenc <piolenc at archivale.com>
wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Received: Saturday, April 12, 2014,
5:58 AM
>
> I never thought of it quite that way.
> Sheesh, that makes concrete boat
> advocacy look almost...well, normal.
>
> Marc
>
> On 4/12/2014 2:21 PM, Alan James
wrote:
> > Marc,
> >>>Right now I feel like I'm
one of a tiny deviant
> cult .......
> > Well you
are an American of
> French heritage hiding away on an
obscure
> > seldom visited South East Asian
Island populated by man
> hungry women
> > & Moslem rebels.
> > Alan
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* Marc de Piolenc <piolenc at archivale.com>
> > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> > *Sent:* Saturday, April 12, 2014
1:42 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
concrete
> >
> > I think I will post those reports
to Dropbox.
> >
> > Right now I feel like I'm one of
a tiny deviant cult of
> Portland cement
> > cultists within the psubs
community. Maybe the reports
> will help me
> > proselytize new adherents...
> >
> > Marc
> >
> > On 4/12/2014 9:03 AM, hank pronk
wrote:
> > > Marc,
> > > Not only is it dirt
cheap, concrete is so
> easy to form. The material
> > cost for a 6 foot sphere is in
the hundreds, not
> thousands. Hank
> > >
> --------------------------------------------
> > > On Fri, 4/11/14, Marc
de Piolenc <piolenc at archivale.com
> > <mailto:piolenc at archivale.com>>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete
> > > To: "Personal
Submersibles General
> Discussion"
> > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
> > > Received:
Friday, April 11, 2014, 8:26
> PM
> > >
> > > I don't have
hard numbers, but
> > > remember that
resistance to mostly
> > > compressive
loading is a structural
> STABILITY problem. Most
> > > practical
> > > steel structures
buckle under
> compression long before
> > > reaching their
> > > actual
compression limit. Concrete has
> an advantage there
> > > due to its
> > > stiffness - the
NCEL tests suggest
> that it comes much closer
> > > to using
> > > its full
compressive strength.
> > >
> > > That said, my
primary interest in
> concrete is due to its
> > > cost and ease
> > > of maintenance.
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
> > > PS. If anybody
is interested, I will
> add the relevant
> > > reports that I
> > > have to my
public Dropbox folder and
> post the link.
> > >
> > > On 4/12/2014
3:15 AM, hank pronk
> wrote:
> > > > A six foot
od sphere built in
> 1.25in thick steel would
> > > be equal in
weight to 4in thick
> concrete. I would not
> > > ever expect 4in
concrete to compare to
> 1.25 steel.
> > > But, it would be
interesting to know
> where the concrete
> > > stands in
comparison.
> > > > Hank
> > > >
> --------------------------------------------
> > > > On Fri,
4/11/14, Marc de Piolenc
> <piolenc at archivale.com
> > <mailto:piolenc at archivale.com>>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
Subject: Re:
> [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete
> > > > To:
"Personal Submersibles
> General
> > > Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> > <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
> > > >
Received: Friday, April 11,
> 2014, 9:59
> > > AM
> > > >
> > > > A
huge amount of work was
> done on
> > > >
concrete for
> pressure-resisting
> > > structures,
including long
> > > > term,
deep exposure tests,
> by the US
> > > Naval Civil
Engineering
> > > >
Laboratory. Most of the
> reports are
> > > available for
> > > >
downloading free of charge
> from DTIC.
> > > >
> > > >
Excellent results were
> achieved with
> > > concrete having
NO
> > > >
reinforcement. There has
> been limited
> > > work done with
> > > >
prestressed concrete and
> even less
> > > done with
reinforced
> > > >
concrete and ferrocement,
> which can
> > > reasonably be
expected
> > > > to
give much more efficient
> and
> > >
distortion-tolerant
> > > >
structures.
> > > >
> > > > Marc
> > > >
> > > > On
4/11/2014 8:25 PM, hank
> pronk
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
A cheap alternative to
> a super
> > > strong sphere
hull is
> > > >
re-enforced concrete. I
> feel like
> > > hiding under a
blanket
> > > > while
I say this,lol.
> I know it
> > > is way out
there, but
> > > >
concrete is super strong
> under
> > >
compression. It is not
> > > > so
good for impact
> resistance.
> > > Concrete is a
very easy
> > > >
material to work with and
> form into a
> > > sphere
shape. I
> > > > have
no idea what thickness
> would be
> > > needed.
Properly
> > > >
engineered I would trust
> it.
> > > > >
Hank
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> _______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > > --
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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