[PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine
JimToddPsub at aol.com
JimToddPsub at aol.com
Wed Apr 9 18:28:50 EDT 2014
Regarding acrylic domes and flat ports, what effect does calendar age and
number of dive cycles have on life span especially for a deep diver such as
this? It seems that this as well as other overhaul costs/schedule would
need to be factored into the project. I've wondered about the life span of
the dome on Idabel.
Jim
In a message dated 4/9/2014 5:12:51 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca writes:
Scott,
Don't give up, talk to a submarine hull designer. Someone who does this
for a living, explore all the options.
Pay for a design in material that is workable
On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 4:06:47 PM, "swaters at waters-ks.com"
<swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Ugg. Ok. That might kill that idea.
-Scott Waters
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine
From: Daniel Lance Lance <_lanceind at gmail.com_ (mailto:lanceind at gmail.com)
>
Date: Wed, April 09, 2014 2:57 pm
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)
>
Scott,
A 3300 fsw capable sub will more then likely require that the pressure
hull be fabricated from HY-80 or HY-100 . I can assure you that working with
either of these two alloys is not for the faint of heart or wallet . I am
sure Phil Nuytten can shed some light on this subject . Idabel was built from
parts scavenged from some well know subs. If memory serves me correctly
the acrylic dome and a HY-100 sphere came IUC's Beaver . The other sphere
came from one of the Perry boats .( Vance if I have this wrong please set me
straight ). If you get lucky and find some similar bargains you might hit
your budget of $100 to $200K . If you have to start from scratch I think $1
to $2 million would not be unrealistic considering the learning curve you
will experience. The level of quality control required to work with HY type
alloys is something to behold . I am not saying it can't be done it's just
that you might make a serious dent in your inheritance .
Just my two cents,
Dan Lance
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 2:07 PM, <_swaters at waters-ks.com_
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) > wrote:
Thanks Carsten for the encouragement
Thanks Alan for all the CAD info
-Scott Waters
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine
From: "Carsten Standfuß " <_MerlinSub at t-online.de_
(mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.de) >
Date: Wed, April 09, 2014 10:33 am
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)
>
Scott thats excat the way to go. Big step for a man - but not immpossible
to reach.
"We are going to the moon, not because it is easy, but because it is
hard.."
<_swaters at waters-ks.com_ (mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) > schrieb:
The good thing is I have a very capable shop now days. With every process
of welding available, robotic plasma cutting and design software, a 8,000
crain/lift, metal lathe, hydrolic ban saw with coolant, and about every tool
anyone could want, it makes life a lot easier. When I started my K-350
back 5 years ago I was a kid with a set of blue prints and a goal of one day
having a submarine and that's it. I didn't know anything about submarines
besides they used "ballast" to go up and down. I didn't know how to weld at
all or even knew what a metal lathe was. And the only tools I had was a
small tool bag with basic stuff my dad had given me from our family hardware
store as a graduation present. The reason I don't want to build a 1000' sub
is it is not a big enough goal. I need something that is the difficulty
level of starting with nothing and no idea to a k-350. I compare a k-350 to a
1000m (3300') sub with completely capable manipulator and tooling with very
advanced technology to be a similar difficulty level and step. I also want
to push the envelope for psubs about what we are capable of. Combined we
have so much knowledge that if we all worked together, we could be producing
ideas and inventions right up there with the big dogs. Hope this helps
with everyone understanding my vision
Thanks,
Scott Waters
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine
From: hank pronk <_hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca_
(mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca) >
Date: Wed, April 09, 2014 5:42 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)
>
You can not make a comparison between what Karl built and what Scott wants
to build. The two subs are totally different. I could see building
Scott's dream sub for 125K if you have your own pressure vessel fab shop.
(maybe) Otherwise it just isn't realistic for that cost.
I do not mean to imply that Scott or any other psub builder can not build
a k3000. As a matter of fact with the proper budget and realistic
assessment of your abilities we can all do it.
Hank
On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 5:06:52 AM, James Frankland
<_jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com_ (mailto:jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com) > wrote:
Scott,
Have a look at this. As long as your a student of something, somewhere,
your ok. Join a local tiddlywinks class or something.
http://www.autodesk.com/education/free-software/inventor-professional
This is not too difficult to use.
Regards
James
On 9 April 2014 04:09, swaters <_swaters at waters-ks.com_
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) > wrote:
I will do the work myself, and not hire it out professionally. I built my
K-350 and it was $40,000 after all the gadgets were put in and I hired out
alot of work because I didn't know how to do it at the time. I did a
comparative analysis on weight to dollar. My K-350 at $40,000 and 4,500 lbs is
comparative ofa 10,500 lb sub would be $93,333 if you add more for acrylic
costs my rough math seems to jive with the $125,000.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone
hank pronk <_hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca_ (mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca) >
wrote:
I think that is a dream guys, 125K no way. Not if it is a professional
build, and it has to be. If you do it right you can spend that to do 1,000
feet.
Hank
On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 8:25:15 PM, Douglas Suhr
<_spiritofcalypso at gmail.com_ (mailto:spiritofcalypso at gmail.com) > wrote:
Wow! $125K for 2500 ' 3000 feet? That's some serious dollar-to-fathom
value!
On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 10:14 PM, swaters <_swaters at waters-ks.com_
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) > wrote:
$125,000 is reachable for me. Sounds like this could be a reality.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone
Vance Bradley <_VBra676539 at AOL.com_ (mailto:VBra676539 at AOL.com) > wrote:
He said in an interview that Idabel cost $125,000.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 8, 2014, at 10:03 PM, Douglas Suhr <_spiritofcalypso at gmail.com_
(mailto:spiritofcalypso at gmail.com) > wrote:
Scott, I have no experience with any large pressure chambers, but I am
sure you are talking well into the thousands (perhaps $15,000 to $35,000)
depending on how long it takes to set up the required tests (and perform
them).
I truly admire your ambition, but like Hank suggested, 1000 feet may be a
better 2nd sub goal. If I were planning to go beyond 1000 feet, I would be
looking to Nuytco, SeaMagine or Triton but of course cost is then a major
issue again. Does anyone know about how much Karl spent building Idabel? ~
Douglas S.
On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 7:48 PM, swaters <_swaters at waters-ks.com_
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) > wrote:
Any idea as to the cost of pressure testing that kind of pressure?
Also, I am not a engineer, but am fairly good at designing things in my
head. If I designed this in CAD, does psubs have a good way of sharing CAD
files for who ever would like too look at my designs and bounce ideas off
of?
I would love for this project to be a way for psubs to increase overall
psubs knowledge of cutting edge and affordable solutions for things like
sonar and manipulator arms and things.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone
Vance Bradley <_VBra676539 at AOL.com_ (mailto:VBra676539 at AOL.com) > wrote:
Maryland and California (Navy) and Texas (southwest research).
Vance
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 8, 2014, at 7:14 PM, swaters <_swaters at waters-ks.com_
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) > wrote:
So is the design of crush depth of 1750m and test to 1250m the idea? Next
question is where can you find a pressure chamber that has 1670psi
capability?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone
Alan James <_alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com_
(mailto:alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com) > wrote:
Scott,
in general people design their boats with a crush depth of
twice their operating depth, then test them to 1.25 or 1.5 x
there proposed maximum operating depth.
So design to 2000 meters & test it to 1250 meters.
Alan
From: swaters <_swaters at waters-ks.com_ (mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) >
To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)
Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 4:29 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine
I am playing with the idea of building another submarine. Here is what I
am thinking.
1) This project needs to be as challenging as the same amount of
difficulty as it was to build my first submarine
2) I want to have lots of bottom time with my K-350 to learn what needs to
be improved on in design and ability.
3) Learn to use CAD
4) Project will take 5-7 years to complete
My initial goals are
1) Hold 3 people
2) Weigh 10,500lbs or less
3) Depth of 3,300 feet (1000m)
4) Have a very effective range of abilities such as a good manipulator arm
and tooling
5) Have a wide veiwing maybe a acylic dome front
Ok, shoot holes in the ideas. What will be the main challenges to
overcome? What complications am I not considering?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone
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