[PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner
vbra676539 at aol.com
vbra676539 at aol.com
Mon Oct 7 11:30:34 EDT 2013
Not well, but you don't care.
Vanec
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Wallace <jon.wallace at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, Oct 7, 2013 8:00 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner
The question is, can you navigate properly after using that system of cooling?
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner
In N.Z. & Australia, we have a very efficient cooling system used by boaties, based on convection. Convection where the body is heated or cooled directly rather than trying to control
the surrounding atmosphere, is the most energy efficient system.
Basically you consume large amounts of super cold liquid which has alcohol in it for the purpose of lower the liquids freezing point.
Alan
Sent from my iPad
On 7/10/2013, at 8:55 AM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
Alan
Lost in translation is my having closed that very system in favor of a fresh water & ethylene glycol coolant through an appropriately surfaced exchanger outside.
Joe
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From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>;
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner
Sent: Mon, Oct 7, 2013 12:30:03 PM
Hi Vance,
>From what little I was told, I was under the impression it was a closed system.
The system Joe posted the link to is an open system where they suck seawater in &
Run it through the inner tube of the condenser coil & send it out again.
Alan
Sent from my iPad
On 7/10/2013, at 8:21 AM, vbra676539 at aol.com wrote:
Alan,
Are you sure they use straight seawater? I ask, because the JSLs, where some of the guys at Triton cut their teeth, used a closed system. Radiator and fans in the forward sphere, pump and compressor outside, and one of the aluminum structural pipes behind the sphere as the condenser. I don't remember what was used for coolant, but it worked pretty well to maintain temperature and to reduce humidity. I think it was Freon based, so you wouldn't want it leaking, for sure.
Vance
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, Oct 7, 2013 5:12 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner
Hi Joe,
Not sure if we are on the same page here.
The pump pumps sea water in through the hull, through a heat exchanger & out again.
So I guess if the tubing in the unit that carries the seawater & the pump pushing it around are
Able to take 175psi ( 250ft plus safety margin ) it would work.
Alan
Sent from my iPad
On 7/10/2013, at 7:44 AM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
Alan,
The external heat exchanger and associated external plumbing can remain at one ATM. The heat transfer is via conduction, so the system while immersed in seawater remains isolated from ambient pressure. A circulating pump need only overcome system resistance.
Internal ball valves on thru hulls as you noted would maintain a fail safe against a failure outside.
Joe
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From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>;
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner
Sent: Mon, Oct 7, 2013 11:25:26 AM
That's a great find Joe,
It's designed for the environment & gives us an idea of size & amp draw.
It would be ok for surface transit but would need a through hull valve where it pumped water in,
that you could close before diving. I doubt the heat exchanging unit & pump would take
the ambient water pressure at depth. As said, the Triton Heat exchanger is outside in the water
& would ( I'm guessing ) just have fresh water at ambient pressure running through it.
I like what Phil said they do, with the ice pads. There are all sorts of spaces you could pack
them in.
Alan
Sent from my iPad
On 6/10/2013, at 11:08 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
Here's a 12VDC unit
http://www.tropicalmarineairconditioning.com/sheets/2425C.pdf
This one is dedicated DC, ..but I think running a similar sized AC unit off an inverter for dual power source options is worth considering. Powering the unit on the surface as I described in an earlier post. I don't propose diving with the unit running, but more so a pre and post mission environmental purge, particularly with the main goal of aggressively dehumidifying the cabin.
No space in these boats as you note, this requires upsizing accordingly, but carefully. I once calculated the volume of a sacrificed conning tower could be substituted for 48" and a shortened length for nearly the same weight, I forget the numbers for the moment.
These compact AC units can be plumbed as I described earlier, the heat exchanger would have to be purposely designed. The outflow water of these units is pretty damn hot, much much hotter than the surrounding water.
I live through Vance's camel torture story for about five minutes every time I climb into my white SUV.
If I'm ever to build and have a practical Florida submersible, I've got to be cognizant of these issues and address then carefully.
Joe
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
From: Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org>;
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner
Sent: Mon, Oct 7, 2013 2:32:22 AM
In the recreational, personal, sub-world you generally can't have your
cake and eat it too. Put two adults in a small sub like the K250 and
you sacrifice comfort for occupancy. Freon based AC units whether auto
or household are not practical solutions for the traveling submariner,
such as convention diving. There was zero space for such an AC unit on
board the Boston Whaler used to tow SNOOPY out into the ocean, and the
support boat was being tossed in 2-4 foot seas. It simply is not
practical unless you are building a support boat specific for your sub
diving and trailering it along with your submarine to the dive location.
The best solution for the average psubber is to use a small ice chest
(six-pack size) stuffed with ice and then circulate cabin air over that
ice. Use a small computer fan to force air over the ice if necessary.
The first refrigerators were nothing more than ice-chests, low-tech,
easy maintenance, not super efficient but adequate to keep things
relatively cool.
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