[PSUBS-MAILIST] MBT valve security plug

Sat Nov 23 18:39:05 EST 2013

Hi, Carsten,
When Alec brought up the subject I first thought of Euronaut since it spends time in the water unattended much more than would our small subs.  I presumed you had some type of safety system.  Thanks for sharing that and the picture.
Kind regards,
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: MerlinSub <MerlinSub at t-online.de>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, Nov 23, 2013 4:32 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MBT valve security plug

Hi Jim, thats exact was the Euronaut has. Its called "Habour saftey plug"   

But it prevent also diving with open hatch if somebody on the controls play with the wrong buttons. 

The security plug has a small tread hole with a screw in- so you unscrew first this small one. 
Just to make sure that no air rush out and the vale is close before you remove the big harbour plug.. 

Its stored during the dive on the outside in the sail. 
So a diver or swimemr can close the tank in case the vale is 
blocked after a dive in condition open or partly open. 

vbr Carsten - I add a picture. 

<jimtoddpsub at aol.com> schrieb:

Alec,
As for the slow-motion dive, it seems it would be a good idea to have a threaded plug or something similar to seal the vents when you have to leave the sub in the water unattended.  Your thoughts?
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Land N Sea <landnsea1 at hawaiiantel.net>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, Nov 23, 2013 3:31 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MBT valve

I would also be concerned about not being able to get a GOOD seal when closed. Also I imagine that you would want to keep running the motor for a bit after the valve has seated to make sure there is a bit of pressure against the 0 ring and I am wondering if that would cause the breaker to pop?
I like the idea of being able to dump the MBTs fast though as I am in the same boat, pun intended, and wish Kittredge would have upgraded the size of the pipe vents on the plans.

Rick

From: Alec Smyth 
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 7:48 AM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MBT valve

One more thing... I'm not sure how easy it would be to get a really accurate seal if you make the body from PVC. I always find plastics challenging when it comes to machining tolerances. For surfacing the sub a tiny valve leak is no problem, in fact you wouldn't even notice it. But a tiny leak is a nuisance, because the sub will have a tendency to dive herself in slow motion when you leave her at the dock for a few hours, when she's under tow, etc.  

:)

Alec  

On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 12:35 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Jon,

I have to agree with Alec.  I would not use an electric   motor.  If it has to be electric, I would also go with solenoid   valves.   I have personally used solenoid valves on my salvage   rov  and in about a million dives we never had a single issue except for   freezing when the rov surfaced in the winter.   Electric solenoids   are also safe in your case because you have multiple mbt's and you should wire   them separately. 

Hank

On Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:10:28 AM, Alec   Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Jon,   

Personally if I used a remotely operated valve I'd be much more   comfortable with actuating it pneumatically than electrically, for   reliability. This is after all the MBT valve, arguably the one thing on the   sub that has to be the most reliable of all. If for some reason it just had to   be electric, then I'd suggest using an electromagnet instead of a motor. The   magnet would act against a spring so that the valve was of the normally closed   type, and you could still surface if the electrons got wet.

What I don't like about the K valves is the way George mounted them. But   I'm a fan of the approach if you add a proper through-hull for the shaft,   sealed with O rings instead of RTV like the original. If using a large bore   valve, I'd add one more detail, which is to put round handles on them instead   of straight ones. That's so that someone getting in or out of the sub won't   dive it by snagging their clothes on the handles. 

Best,

Alec

On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org> wrote:

Looking for feedback on this MBT poppet design (see     attachment).  It is very similar to the poppet Vance showed us in     Islamorada but driven by an independent electric motor rather than     pneumatic.  My goal is to move to an electric or pneumatic replacement     for the Kittredge MBT ball valve thru-hull design for various reasons.     First, I don't like the valve handles sticking in through the conning tower;     second, I am adding saddle tanks for additional buoyancy which would mean     adding at least one more valve; third, my saddle tanks are going to be big     and I want a large diameter valve to provide quick venting.

Illustration.
The valve is made out     of PVC plumbing material available at any good hardware store.  The     square main body is a 4-inch PVC coupling.  A series of 1-inch holes     drilled into the end allow venting when the "plunger" is retracted back to     the motor side.  The "stop" on the closed side would have a gasket to     provide an air-tight seal.

The motor is a cheap     electric screwdriver motor such as Black & Decker AS6NG.  It has     plenty of torque, reversible, and is low power (2-3vdc).  When the body     is removed the "guts" fit nicely into 1.5 inch PVC piping.  The     rotating socket tip will be waterproofed using a home-made "Blue-Globe" type     attachment.  Oil compensation will ensure the housing doesn't fracture     at depth although theoretically 1.5 inch PVC is pressure safe to well beyond     the depths I will be diving.

The piston will be     1/4 inch thick (6mm) and can be aluminum or even 1/4 to 3/8 acrylic.      It is attached to the coupling nut by a 1/4-20 threaded rod.  The     coupling nut is permanently attached to the rotating socket tip of the     screwdriver by either epoxy or light welding.  As the motor and     coupling nut turns, the threaded rod is drawn into the coupling nut pulling     the piston toward the motor and allowing the MBT to vent.  Reverse the     motor and the piston is forced back down to the closed position and seals     the MBT.

I have already prototyped the motor     and it's PVC housing and they fit together very well.  Cost of battery     operated screwdriver is about $10-20 (US).  PVC of course, is     cheap.  I am looking at 4-inch material but this design could be easily     scaled.

I see lots of pros; looking for cons     and potential issues with the design before I fully prototype it.  Any     of you CAD'rs interested in creating a nice 3-D drawing for me?

Jon

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-- 

Carsten Standfuß
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org

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